Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/29/2002 02:13 PM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                    ALASKA STATE LEGISLATURE                                                                                    
                   SENATE JUDICIARY COMMITTEE                                                                                 
                         April 29, 2002                                                                                         
                            2:13 p.m.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS PRESENT                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
Senator Robin Taylor, Chair                                                                                                     
Senator John Cowdery                                                                                                            
Senator Johnny Ellis                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MEMBERS ABSENT                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
Senator Dave Donley, Vice Chair                                                                                                 
Senator Gene Therriault                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                              
COMMITTEE CALENDAR                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 206(RLS)                                                                                                  
"An Act  relating to a  vessel-based commercial fisheries  limited                                                              
entry system for  the Bering Sea Korean hair crab  fishery and for                                                              
weathervane   scallop  fisheries,   to   management  of   offshore                                                              
fisheries, and to  the definition of 'person' for  purposes of the                                                              
commercial  fisheries   entry  program;   and  providing   for  an                                                              
effective date."                                                                                                                
     MOVED CSHB 206(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CS FOR HOUSE BILL NO. 332(FIN)                                                                                                  
"An Act extending the termination  date of the Council on Domestic                                                              
Violence  and Sexual Assault;  relating  to the council's  duties;                                                              
placing the  executive director  and staff of  the council  in the                                                              
exempt service; and providing for an effective date."                                                                           
     MOVED CSHB 332(RLS) OUT OF COMMITTEE                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
PREVIOUS SENATE COMMITTEE ACTION                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
HB  206  -  See  Resources  minutes  dated  3/20/02,  4/17/02  and                                                              
4/24/02.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
HB 332 - No previous action.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
WITNESS REGISTER                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Mary McDowell                                                                                                                   
Commercial Fisheries Entry Commission                                                                                           
8800 Glacier Hwy, Suite 109                                                                                                     
Juneau, AK 99801-8079                                                                                                           
POSITION STATEMENT:  Explained the provisions of HB 206                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
Ms. Teressa Kandianus                                                                                                           
No address provided                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 206                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Jason Tandler                                                                                                                   
P O Box 4471                                                                                                                    
Kodiak, AK 99615                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed to HB 206                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Paul Seaton                                                                                                                     
58395 Bruce St.                                                                                                                 
Homer, AK 99603                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT:  Opposed to HB 206                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Leonard Herzog                                                                                                                  
916 Delaney St.                                                                                                                 
Anchorage 99501                                                                                                                 
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 206                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
John Winther                                                                                                                    
Petersburg, AK                                                                                                                  
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 206                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Joe Kyle                                                                                                                        
No address provided                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 206                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Representative Con Bunde                                                                                                        
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Sponsor of HB 332                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
Gigi Belcher                                                                                                                    
WISH                                                                                                                            
Ketchikan, AK 99901                                                                                                             
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports HB 332                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
Bill Miller                                                                                                                     
Deputy Chief                                                                                                                    
Anchorage Police Department                                                                                                     
Anchorage, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 332                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Brenda Stanfill                                                                                                                 
Executive Director                                                                                                              
Interior Alaska Center for Non-Violent Living                                                                                   
Fairbanks, AK                                                                                                                   
POSITION STATEMENT: Supports HB 332                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Susan Scudder                                                                                                                   
Executive Director                                                                                                              
Council on Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault                                                                                   
Department of Public Safety                                                                                                     
PO Box 111200                                                                                                                   
Juneau, AK  99811-1200                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:  Supports CSHB 332 but opposes one provision                                                              
                                                                                                                                
Lauri Hugonen                                                                                                                   
Director                                                                                                                        
Network on Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault                                                                                 
Juneau, AK 99801                                                                                                                
POSITION STATEMENT:                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
Pat Davidson                                                                                                                    
Legislative Audit Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                    
Legislative Affairs Agency                                                                                                      
Alaska State Capitol                                                                                                            
Juneau, AK  99801-1182                                                                                                          
POSITION STATEMENT:   Explained the audit recommendations  for the                                                            
Council on Domestic Violence & Sexual Assault                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
ACTION NARRATIVE                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-22, SIDE A                                                                                                            
Number 001                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  ROBIN  TAYLOR  called  the  Senate  Judiciary  Committee                                                            
meeting to  order at 2:13 p.m.  Senators Cowdery, Ellis  and Chair                                                              
Taylor  were  present.  The  first   matter  to  come  before  the                                                              
committee was HB 206.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
            HB 206-LIMITED ENTRY FOR COMM. FISHERIES                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MARY MCDOWELL, Commissioner at  the Commercial Fisheries Entry                                                              
Commission (CFEC),  gave the following description  of the origins                                                              
of HB  206. In 1996  the Legislature  enacted a moratorium  on the                                                              
entry of  new vessels  into the  Korean hair  crab fishery  and in                                                              
1997  to the  scallop fishery.  As part  of the  Korean hair  crab                                                              
moratorium bill,  the Legislature  included a provision  directing                                                              
CFEC to work with the Department  of Law to draft legislation that                                                              
would create a vessel-based limited  entry program. In response to                                                              
that legislative mandate,  HB 206 was drafted  and introduced last                                                              
year by the House Resources Committee at CFEC's request.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCDOWELL  said in  its directive,  the Legislature  asked that                                                              
statutory language  be developed to create a  vessel-based program                                                              
that  could  be used  in  fisheries  in  which limitation  to  the                                                              
current, existing program would not  effectively meet the purposes                                                              
of  the  Limited  Entry  Act: conservation  of  the  resource  and                                                              
protection  of the  economic viability  of the  fishery. In  doing                                                              
that, the  Legislature recognized  that certain fisheries  do need                                                              
limitation, but  that the characteristics of those  fisheries make                                                              
them ill-suited  to CFEC's  existing program  and recognized  that                                                              
the  state needs  a tool  to handle  those fisheries.  HB 206  was                                                              
initially  introduced as  generic legislation  as the  Legislature                                                              
directed. It contained a new framework  of a program better suited                                                              
to certain  fisheries that  CFEC could  apply. However,  the House                                                              
passed  version of  the  bill was  narrowed  down so  that it  now                                                              
restricts the  use of this  program to  only the scallop  and hair                                                              
crab  fisheries,  the  two  fisheries   placed  under  moratorium.                                                              
Members of  the public expressed  concern in the  House committees                                                              
about giving generic  authority to limit fisheries  under this new                                                              
method,  which  diverges  considerably  from  traditional  limited                                                              
entry. HB 206 was amended to create  the new program and authorize                                                              
its use in the two fisheries only.  She explained that the program                                                              
does  not  limit  those  fisheries; it  would  be  an  alternative                                                              
available for CFEC's use if it does limit those fisheries.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCDOWELL  pointed out  the current  limited entry program  has                                                              
been  in place for  nearly  30 years and  has been  used to  limit                                                              
nearly  65 fisheries.  Its design  is based  on an  owner-operator                                                              
model, which is characteristic of  most fisheries. Those fisheries                                                              
are relatively small and tend to  have single owners who invest in                                                              
their boats and equipment and operate  them. Limited entry permits                                                              
are  issued   only  to   individuals,  not   to  the  vessels   or                                                              
partnerships. However,  in recent years, CFEC has  been faced with                                                              
the need  to handle  fisheries that  have evolved  in a  different                                                              
way, the hair  crab and scallop fisheries being two  of them. They                                                              
have  different  ownership  and  participation  patterns  and  are                                                              
difficult to limit under CFEC's existing  program. HB 206 contains                                                              
a  modified  approach that  can  be  used  in fisheries  that  are                                                              
characterized by larger, more expensive  vessels, which are rarely                                                              
owned by  one person.  Skippers are  often hired  to run  them and                                                              
they fish  further offshore.   If that  fishery was limited  using                                                              
the current  limited entry  program, there  is a possibility  that                                                              
the number  of participants would  increase because of  the number                                                              
of skippers per boat. If the only  two choices were open access to                                                              
the fishery  or limitation,  it's possible  there would  be enough                                                              
risk to the resource that managers  would opt to close the fishery                                                              
rather than  endanger the  resource, resulting  in a loss  of jobs                                                              
and taxes.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CFEC also sees  this as a fairness issue. In  the existing limited                                                              
entry  program,  the  person  who  has  invested  in  the  fishing                                                              
operation is  the one who is  likely to be "grandfathered"  in. In                                                              
the scallop and hair crab fisheries,  investors have purchased and                                                              
maintained  vessels  and  hired  skippers.  The  Legislature  must                                                              
decide who  should get  the fishing privileges  that go  with that                                                              
vessel in  the future. The  Legislature recognized  these problems                                                              
when  it enacted  the  two moratoria  because  both fisheries  are                                                              
vessel  based. The  hair  crab moratorium  ends  in  2003 and  the                                                              
scallop moratorium  ends in  2004. CFEC  needs to  have a  tool to                                                              
limit the hair  crab fishery next  year so passage of HB  206 this                                                              
session is important.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
2:19 p.m.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TAYLOR   noted  that   Senator  Therriault   joined  the                                                              
committee.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MCDOWELL said  that passage  of HB  206 will  not effect  the                                                              
existing limited entry  program, which will continue  to be CFEC's                                                              
primary method of  limiting fisheries in the future.  And, even if                                                              
HB 206  had passed as generic  legislation, it contains  a default                                                              
provision to  CFEC's regular program  unless CFEC  could determine                                                              
that limitation  would not be effective. The  House-passed version                                                              
simply creates a tool that would  be available to CFEC in just two                                                              
fisheries.  She  noted  CFEC  strongly  supports  maintaining  the                                                              
traditional person or gear operator  based limited entry system as                                                              
its  primary program  and recognizes  that  this legislation  does                                                              
authorize  an  exception  to  the   fundamental  premise  of  that                                                              
existing  program. HB  206  is a  departure  from CFEC's  existing                                                              
program  and it  presents a  policy  call for  the Legislature  to                                                              
make. She stated  CFEC believes this legislation  is responsive to                                                              
the Legislature's  directive and presents a pragmatic  approach to                                                              
dealing with  the evolving nature  of Alaska's fisheries  and that                                                              
CFEC is  faced with having  to limit a  few fisheries that  do not                                                              
fit the  model that works well  in other fisheries.  CFEC supports                                                              
this legislation.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                              
SENATOR  THERRIAULT asked  Ms.  McDowell to  explain  why the  two                                                              
fisheries do not fit the existing model.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS.  MCDOWELL  explained  that  the  ownership  and  participation                                                              
arrangements  in the  two fisheries  differ  from the  traditional                                                              
fisheries,  which  tend to  be  owner-operator fisheries.  In  the                                                              
traditional fisheries, one person  or a family owns the vessel and                                                              
runs it. In the  larger boat fisheries, the vessels  are large and                                                              
expensive and  tend to  be owned  by partnerships or  corporations                                                              
and several skippers are hired to run them on a rotating basis.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR   COWDERY  asked   Ms.  McDowell   to  elaborate   on  the                                                              
eligibility period.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCDOWELL said that would be determined  through the regulatory                                                              
process when  CFEC puts forth  a proposal on  how it will  limit a                                                              
given  fishery.  Usually, CFEC  looks  at four  years  immediately                                                              
preceding a limitation.  Because these fisheries  have been closed                                                              
for several years, the issue is more complicated.                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked  if the sale of permits  would be similar                                                              
to limited entry permits.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCDOWELL  said it would be  very similar to the  limited entry                                                              
permits. The permits would be a use  privilege that would be under                                                              
the control  of the  state. Transfers would  have be  requested of                                                              
the Commission  and authorized  and they would  trade on  the open                                                              
market so when the owner sells the  vessel, the fishing privileges                                                              
would be sold with it.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked if the  initial permits would  be issued                                                              
or sold.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCDOWELL said they would issue  a permit and grandfathered in.                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT  asked if  the permits  will have a  tremendous                                                              
value.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MS. MCDOWELL said they would take on the open market value.                                                                     
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TAYLOR  announced  that  he  would  take  teleconference                                                              
testimony.  Due  to the  number  of  participants, he  asked  that                                                              
testimony be limited to two minutes.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
MS. TERESSA  KANDIANUS informed members  that she and  her husband                                                              
own a scallop vessel named the Provider.  She has reviewed some of                                                              
the correspondence  sent to the committee regarding  the number of                                                              
skippers.  The Provider  has  had five  different  skippers on  it                                                              
since  1996. She  noted there  are  a lot  of on-board  processing                                                              
issues  with  DEC.  DEC  processing  and  wastewater  permits  are                                                              
required  regardless of  whether or  not the fish  are frozen  on-                                                              
board and vessels  must have 100 percent observer  coverage. Those                                                              
requirements are not economically  feasible for smaller vessels to                                                              
comply with. In one respect, it is  a large boat, offshore fishery                                                              
that  requires  a boat  that  can  handle  rough weather,  and  it                                                              
requires a  lot of permitting not  required of a smaller  "mom and                                                              
pop" operation.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. JASON  TANDLER,  testifying from  Kodiak, said  he has  been a                                                              
year-round fisherman  for 26 years. He is a former  scallop permit                                                              
holder and  vessel owner captain who  is now denied access  to the                                                              
scallop fishery.  He is adamantly opposed  to HB 206 as  this bill                                                              
will not only enable but will guide  CFEC to make unconstitutional                                                              
and unfair  laws, specifically giving  rights to  harvest scallops                                                              
to  a very  few select  out-of-state  boat owners.  Traditionally,                                                              
that  privilege  has  gone  to  the   permitholder  operator,  for                                                              
instance  in the salmon  fishery. HB  206 will  set the  stage for                                                              
other fisheries  to follow this  precedent. By giving  vessels the                                                              
exclusive rights  to the fishery,  the need to pay  an experienced                                                              
local  crew fair  wages  is eliminated.  By  either returning  the                                                              
scallop  fishery  to  open  access   or  giving  the  permitholder                                                              
operator the rights  to fish instead of the boat  owner, the state                                                              
can eliminate  the monopoly  and economic  hardship that  has been                                                              
created by  the present  and proposed  continuation of  having the                                                              
boat owner  possessing exclusive rights  to a public  resource. He                                                              
stated:                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     His boat will by no means lose  its actual value, and if                                                                   
     he's  willing  to  offer a  competitive  opportunity  to                                                                   
     utilize  his already  rigged  and proven  vessel in  the                                                                   
     scallop fishery,  undoubtedly his boat is selected  by a                                                                   
     permitholder  to continue to  fish. Should the  owner be                                                                   
     unwilling  to be economically  competitive, then  he can                                                                   
     buy a  permit in another fishery  the same as you  or I.                                                                   
     At  least   a  fair  situation  is  created   where  the                                                                   
     economics dictate that the proverbial  pie is split up a                                                                   
     little more evenly.  As a veteran, long time  year round                                                                   
     fisherman,  I  maintain  that the  scallop  resource  is                                                                   
     dramatically  underutilized. Some  of the areas  already                                                                   
     being  harvested,  such  as  Prince  William  Sound  and                                                                   
     Kodiak,  could  withstand  a  significant  increase  and                                                                   
     effort. Many areas now permanently  closed, for instance                                                                   
     most  of  the  bays  and  near   shores  of  the  Alaska                                                                   
     Peninsula  mainland  and  the   Shelikof  Island  areas,                                                                   
     should  be open.  At  a time  when  both  the state  and                                                                   
     fishing industry  are in financial  trouble, we  need to                                                                   
     approach this  very valuable  resource on a  level where                                                                   
     Alaska  and  its local  residents  realize  some of  the                                                                   
     profits  available.  This  upcoming  season,  the  state                                                                   
     scallop fishery  will be a  one-boat fishery,  this boat                                                                   
     being a  large out-of-state factory boat  delivering its                                                                   
     catch to foreign  [indisc.]  or going back to Washington                                                                   
     with its  catch. Let's  put our  state waters back  into                                                                   
     our state's residents' hands. Thank you.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
MR. PAUL  SEATON, a commercial fisherman  from Homer, said  HB 206                                                              
raises  the  philosophical  debate   for  corporate  ownership  of                                                              
limited  entry  permits. He  noted  he  is  not referring  to  the                                                              
offshore  scallop fleet  that already  has  federal limited  entry                                                              
permits, he is  referring to state licenses only.   He stated that                                                              
Ms. McDowell testified  that HB 206 will apply to  only a few non-                                                              
owner operated  fisheries, however the tanner crab  fisheries, the                                                              
state water sea cod fisheries and  others also fit the description                                                              
of non-owner operated.  The only addition that would  be needed to                                                              
add these  fisheries to the  list, once this philosophical  debate                                                              
is  over,  would be  a  simple  statutory  change.  If HB  206  is                                                              
enacted,  approximately 75  percent of the  owner corporations  in                                                              
the hair crab  fleet would be outside corporations.  He said he is                                                              
opposed to HB 206. He noted the constitutional  amendment allowing                                                              
for the  Limited Entry Act would  not have passed  if corporations                                                              
would be able to buy or be issued entry permits.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. SEATON noted  a second judicial issue is the  Magnuson Stevens                                                              
Act.  Section  303 authorizes  the  terms  under which  the  North                                                              
Pacific  Fisheries Management  Council (NPFMC)  can implement  the                                                              
fisheries  management   plans,  and  Section  304   restricts  the                                                              
Secretary from doing  any management plans that  include a limited                                                              
access program. The  state uses that same authority  to extend its                                                              
jurisdiction so  he believes the  state would be  overstepping its                                                              
bounds if  it tried to  put limited access  of state  origins into                                                              
federal waters.                                                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. LEONARD HERZOG,  part-owner of a crab boat in  Homer, said the                                                              
hair crab  fishery takes place in  deep waters in the  Bering Sea,                                                              
outside  of state  waters.   About 20  boats are  involved in  the                                                              
fishery. The  fishery consists  of large  vessels that  go through                                                              
different   ownership  and   skipper  provisions.   It  would   be                                                              
problematic to  issue a  permit to a  skipper. He and  his partner                                                              
bought  their boat with  the privilege  of fishing  hair crab.  He                                                              
stated:                                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
     The idea  that whatever  we do here  has to transfer  to                                                                   
     small  boat  fisheries in  the  Gulf  I don't  think  is                                                                   
     correct. At the last Board of  Fish meeting, most of the                                                                   
     tanner  crab  fisheries  in  the Gulf  were  made  super                                                                   
     exclusive and it  was the intent of the Board  to try to                                                                   
     keep those  boats small and owner-operated.  However, in                                                                   
     the Bering Sea the situation  is different where most of                                                                   
     the investments  are over $1  million and the  boats are                                                                   
     owned, in our case, by a corporation  with two Anchorage                                                                   
     owners and one  other case is by Yellow [indisc.].  So I                                                                   
     think it  is a tool  the state recognizes  is necessary,                                                                   
     you know, for the hair crab  fishery and I don't see any                                                                   
     detriment to non-Alaskans or Alaskans. Thank you.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR took public testimony from those present.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOHN  WINTHER, a  life long Petersburg  resident who  has been                                                              
involved in  the fisheries  since 1964, said  he is part  owner of                                                              
three vessels  that participate in  the cod fishery and  the owner                                                              
of another vessel  that participates in the hair  crab fishery. He                                                              
said  the hair  crab fishery,  when  the moratorium  is lifted  in                                                              
2003, will  be the  only fishery  that would  not be limited.  The                                                              
NPFMC has put  all ground fisheries, and is currently  putting all                                                              
crab fisheries, under a limited entry  system.  If this moratorium                                                              
is allowed to expire,  it will be the only open  access fishery in                                                              
the Bering Sea  so that anyone not included in  the current system                                                              
under federal  management will get  involved in it. The  hair crab                                                              
fishery  is very  small, with  quotas  ranging from  1 to  3 or  4                                                              
million pounds.  It is currently  in a  down cycle so  very little                                                              
fishing is going  on. This fishery is the only  crab fishery where                                                              
every single crab is brought to shore  and processed in Alaska. No                                                              
catcher-processors  are  involved. Alaska  receives  its fish  tax                                                              
from every  pound of  this crab.  The fishery  provides about  two                                                              
months  of employment  in  St. Paul,  where  most of  the crab  is                                                              
delivered. He agreed  with Mr. Herzog that this  fishery occurs in                                                              
the middle  of the Bering Sea  and requires large boats  and major                                                              
investments. He  noted he has had  three or four skippers  run his                                                              
boat during the  hair crab fishery and, under  the current system,                                                              
four more licenses  would be required. This fishery  cannot take a                                                              
multitude  of licenses.  While a  member of the  NPFMC from  1983-                                                              
1989,  he learned  a  lot  about  fisheries management  plans  and                                                              
believes HB 206 is "the way to go."                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
MR. JOE KYLE  told members he also  speaks as an ex-member  of the                                                              
NPFMC  and someone  who  has worked  on  the moratoria  that  were                                                              
established for the Korean hair crab  and scallop fishery. He said                                                              
The  Norton  Sound CDQ  group  and  the  St.  Paul CDQ  group  are                                                              
invested in the  Korean hair crab fishery and  they have testified                                                              
at previous hearings that they support  HB 206. He said the Korean                                                              
hair crab fishery is the only crab  fishery in the state for which                                                              
the  NPFMC delegated  limited entry  authority to  the state.  The                                                              
NPFMC delegated crab  management to the state but  it retained the                                                              
exclusive right  to limit those  fisheries, except for  the Korean                                                              
hair crab fishery.  He said he believes it is good  to give CFEC a                                                              
tool to  use to  limit this  fishery if  necessary. He  emphasized                                                              
that he  has participated in  numerous limited entry  decisions on                                                              
the NPFMC  and every one  would always get  "a crawl stuck  in our                                                              
throat" over the  equity issue. But, after the  issue was debated,                                                              
sometimes  for years,  having to  limit the fishery  was the  only                                                              
thing  standing  in  the  end.   While  the  NPFMC  did  not  like                                                              
conveying equity  interest, the  fishery would  be lost if  it was                                                              
not done because of conservation issues.                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR.  KYLE   said  he   believes  Representative   Scalzi   did  an                                                              
extraordinary job of  carrying HB 206 on the House  side. He tried                                                              
to fix the  bill many times  to pacify the legitimate  concerns of                                                              
some  but  the goal  post  keeps  moving.  He said  he  personally                                                              
believes that enough  is enough and that CFEC needs  this tool. He                                                              
noted that Mr.  Seaton expressed concern about  the precedent that                                                              
HB 206 will  create because to  apply it to other  fisheries would                                                              
only  take  a statutory  fix.  He  believes  that is  an  oxymoron                                                              
because he  has never seen a  simple statutory fix to  any fishery                                                              
issue.                                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
There  being no  further  testimony,  SENATOR COWDERY  moved  CSHB
206(RLS) from  committee with  individual recommendations  and its                                                              
zero fiscal note.                                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  announced that  without objection,  CSHB 206(RLS)                                                              
would move from committee.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TAYLOR  announced  that  he  intended  to  take  up  the                                                              
confirmation hearing  of Arthur Robinson  but Mr. Robinson  had to                                                              
go to court. He announced a brief  at-ease to await the arrival of                                                              
Representative Bunde.                                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
         HB 332-DOMESTIC VIOLENCE/SEXUAL ASSAULT COUNCIL                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  CON BUNDE, sponsor  of HB  332, explained  that HB
332 extends  the sunset date of  the Council on  Domestic Violence                                                              
and  Sexual Assault.  He noted  the Legislative  Budget and  Audit                                                              
division  did    an audit  of  the  Council  and  it came  to  his                                                              
attention that  some of the  Council's problems could  be resolved                                                              
if the  director could  hire or  work with  a team, therefore  the                                                              
bill includes a provision to exempt  the Council employees so that                                                              
if a  director changes,  the new director  can choose a  team that                                                              
can accomplish results that are best for the state.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT asked  what recommendations  were made  in the                                                              
audit that Representative Bunde did not include in HB 332.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE BUNDE  said he did not  have the audit in  front of                                                              
him but thought  the recommendation included in HB  332 would be a                                                            
management tool that would serve the Council well.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR took testimony via teleconference.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MS.  GIGI PILCHER,  testifying  from Ketchikan,  thanked  Chairman                                                              
Taylor for his long and devoted support  and service to victims of                                                              
crime.  She   acknowledged  his  dedication  and   commitment  has                                                              
extended beyond his  service as a Senator. She  discussed a recent                                                              
homicide  in  Ketchikan in  which  a  6  week-old infant  died  of                                                              
physical abuse  and said  that incident should  give pause  to the                                                              
importance  of  passing HB  332.  She  stated that  Ketchikan  has                                                              
experienced  an increase of  violence during  the last  12 months.                                                              
Most attribute  the increase in violence,  in part, to  the severe                                                              
economic crisis  in Ketchikan  and lower  Southeast Alaska  as the                                                              
result  of  the  closure  of  the  pulp  and  sawmills.  Ketchikan                                                              
experienced  an unemployment  rate  of 11.4  percent in  February;                                                              
Wrangell, Petersburg,  Prince of Wales Island and  Metlakatla have                                                              
even higher  rates. There  is a sense  of hopelessness  about what                                                              
the future  holds for those  communities. The Council  of Domestic                                                              
Violence and Sexual Assault provides  extremely valuable oversight                                                              
of domestic  violence programs  throughout  the state. It  ensures                                                              
that  non-profits  and  other agencies  receive  state  funds  and                                                              
adhere to grant regulations. It ensures  that the immediate safety                                                              
and other  services are  available to  victims of violent  crimes.                                                              
Because the  Council does  such a good  job on oversight,  she has                                                              
suggested over the  years that some of the other  departments take                                                              
note.  She also  thanked Representative  Bunde  for sponsoring  HB
332.                                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
REPRESENTATIVE  BUNDE told  members that  their packets contain  a                                                              
copy of the Legislative  Budget and Audit audit  and, in addition,                                                              
Pat Davidson was available to answer questions about the audit.                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
DEPUTY  CHIEF  BILL MILLER,  Anchorage  Police  Department,  urged                                                              
members to pass  HB 332. As the Domestic Violence  Coordinator, he                                                              
makes sure  the Anchorage  Police Department acts  to the  best of                                                              
its  ability  to help  victims  of  domestic violence  and  sexual                                                              
assault.  The Anchorage  Police  Department  answers thousands  of                                                              
calls related  to domestic  violence each  year. One-third  of the                                                              
homicides in Anchorage  are due to domestic violence.  The Council                                                              
on  Domestic  Violence   and  Sexual  Assault  gives   the  police                                                              
department  a   number  of  tools   to  work  with.   It  provides                                                              
opportunities  to  get  trained by  non-profit  organizations  and                                                              
state agencies.  That training is extremely important  during this                                                              
time   of  fiscal   constraint.  The   Council  also   facilitates                                                              
coordination   between   law  enforcement   agencies,   non-profit                                                              
organizations,   service   organizations   and   with   government                                                              
agencies. He urged passage of HB 332.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
MS.  BRENDA  STANFILL,  the Executive  Director  of  the  Interior                                                              
Alaska  Center  for  Non-Violent  Living  in  Fairbanks,  informed                                                              
members the Center  is a domestic violence shelter  that also aids                                                              
victims of sexual  assault. The Center relies very  heavily on the                                                              
Council and Council staff, which  provide tremendous oversight and                                                              
technical assistance. The Council  collects statistics from around                                                              
the  state about  domestic  violence and  sexual  assault and  can                                                              
provide a good  look at what is happening. The  Center also relies                                                              
on  the  Council for  the  resources  it  can provide.  She  urged                                                              
members to pass HB 332.                                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
2:55 p.m.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. SUSAN SCUDDER,  Executive Director of the  Council on Domestic                                                              
Violence  and Sexual  Assault,  offered  to answer  any  questions                                                              
about the  audit. She  informed members  the Council  has been  in                                                              
place since  1981 and was put  in the Department of  Public Safety                                                              
to fill  a very  public need  of making  sure that  the women  and                                                              
children in Alaska that are in harms  way have a safe place to go.                                                              
As  part  of  a  comprehensive  and  evolving  effort  to  address                                                              
domestic violence and sexual assault,  the Council added oversight                                                              
of batterers'  intervention programs several  years ago to  try to                                                              
take  a more  holistic  approach  to try  to  break  the cycle  of                                                              
violence. Last  year, more  than 7,000  Alaskans needed  more than                                                              
50,000 shelter nights around the state.                                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
MS.  SCUDDER said  the Council  is concerned  about the  provision                                                              
added to  the bill that  changes the  employees to exempt  status.                                                              
The  Council   feels  there   is  institutional  knowledge   among                                                              
employees  and  even  though  executive  directors  change,  other                                                              
employees  develop relationships  with program  staff and  federal                                                              
staff and provide good service. The  Council is concerned that the                                                              
possibility  of changing all  employees at  one time could  create                                                              
problems for  the programs it serves.  She said the  Council truly                                                              
serves a public safety function.                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT referred  to the recommendation  in the  audit                                                              
that pertains  to conflict  of interest and  asked Ms.  Scudder to                                                              
comment.                                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCUDDER  explained that the  Network on Domestic  Violence and                                                              
Sexual Assault is the non-profit  coalition of all programs around                                                              
the state.  The  programs themselves provide names  to the Network                                                              
and  of   board  applicants  who   must  fill  out  a   very  long                                                              
questionnaire.  Though this procedure  can be  seen as  creating a                                                              
possible conflict  of interest,  it can also  be seen to  create a                                                              
conflict of  interest with the  community program that  the person                                                              
is affiliated  with. She noted that  most people who serve  on the                                                              
Council's  board  as  public  members   have  some  background  in                                                              
domestic  violence or  sexual  assault. For  example,  one of  the                                                              
current  board  members was  a  former  board  member of  STAR,  a                                                              
grantee. Another board member was  a former director of AWAKE, the                                                              
main shelter in  Anchorage. She said that even  though these names                                                              
come  from the  Network, the  Governor  does not  have to  appoint                                                              
people recommended by the Network.  The Council believes that many                                                              
program people  are experts  in this  field so it  makes a  lot of                                                              
sense that they recommend people  they feel are the best qualified                                                              
to be the public members of the Council's board.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked if any allegations that the executive                                                                  
director was showing favoritism have occurred in the past.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS. SCUTTER said there have not been any.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS. LAURI  HUGONIN, Director of  the Network on  Domestic Violence                                                              
and Sexual  Assault,  stated support  for HB 332.  The Council  on                                                              
Domestic Violence  and Sexual Assault  is the nexus  in government                                                              
for  state departments  and the  public to  coordinate efforts  to                                                              
address these crimes. She stated:                                                                                               
                                                                                                                                
     Through the  Council, the Departments of  Public Safety,                                                                   
     Law,  Education  and  Health and  Social  Services  work                                                                   
     together  to   streamline  services  to   victims,  hold                                                                   
     perpetrators  accountable for  their criminal  behavior,                                                                   
     and  create  societal  change  so these  crimes  are  no                                                                   
     longer  tolerable in  our communities.  The  departments                                                                   
     develop  cooperative work  agreements on  how to  handle                                                                   
     situations  where   overlap  may  occur  or   where  one                                                                   
     department's  work  depends   on  another.  The  Council                                                                   
     provides  a forum  for the departments  to work  through                                                                   
     systemic  problems  when addressing  these  crimes.  The                                                                   
     Council also  provides an avenue  for public  input into                                                                   
     the  state's  policies and  procedures  regarding  these                                                                   
     crimes, by seating three members  from the public on the                                                                   
     Council itself. The Council  meets four times a year and                                                                   
     provides  opportunity for public  trust money and  holds                                                                   
     at  least one statewide  teleconference  each year on  a                                                                   
     topic related  to domestic  violence or sexual  assault.                                                                   
     The   Council  works   closely  with   the  Network   in                                                                   
     developing community  based programming for  victims and                                                                   
     perpetrators  of domestic violence  and sexual  assault.                                                                   
     Maintaining  the  Council in  the Department  of  Public                                                                   
     Safety,  whose  purpose  is to  coordinate  the  state's                                                                   
     response to domestic violence  and sexual assault, sends                                                                   
     strong messages.  It says to  the victims of  these acts                                                                   
     that they are  crimes and help is available.  It says to                                                                   
     perpetrators  that the  state has a  vested interest  in                                                                   
     their  criminal activity  and  it says  to all  citizens                                                                   
     that the  state cares  enough about  these issues  to be                                                                   
     actively  working  to  address  them. I'd  be  happy  to                                                                   
     answer any questions.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-22, SIDE B                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR THERRIAULT asked Ms. Davidson to discuss the                                                                            
recommendation that pertained to the conflict of interest.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MS.  PAT  DAVIDSON,   legislative  auditor,   Legislative  Affairs                                                              
Agency, told  members the  first recommendation  was to  amend the                                                              
legislation  to  eliminate  the   reference  to  the  Network  for                                                              
Domestic  Violence  in  the  statutes  regarding  the  Council  on                                                              
Domestic Violence and Sexual Assault.  She said the reason is that                                                              
the  Network makes  recommendations  to the  governor  for new  or                                                              
continuing members and  when the Network also became  a grantee of                                                              
the Council,  the auditors felt that  was an apparent  conflict of                                                              
interest.  When the auditors  looked at  the relationship  between                                                              
the  two,  they  identified  a  couple  of  incidents,  the  first                                                              
occurred  in FY  01. When  a grant  went  to the  Network, it  was                                                              
modified and limited  the Council to reviewing  only the financial                                                              
records. As a  result, the Council could not actually  monitor the                                                              
performance of the grant. She pointed  out that after the auditors                                                              
talked to the Council about the situation,  when that same request                                                              
was made, it was  denied so that the Council is  no longer limited                                                              
to reviewing financial records only.  The second incident occurred                                                              
when the Council  was developing the monitoring  schedule for sub-                                                              
grantees, it did not include the  Network. She said because of the                                                              
close financial relationship between  the Network and the Council,                                                              
the auditors  recommended  an arms length  relationship.  She said                                                              
the auditors  did not  mean to indicate  that the governor  cannot                                                              
consult with  the Network  and she agrees  the Network is  a great                                                              
agency  to  suggest  names.  The  auditors  were  not  looking  to                                                              
eliminate  that but  they believe  the statutory  tie between  the                                                              
Network and the public members should be broken.                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAVIDSON pointed  out the  report also  recommended that  the                                                              
legislation be  modified to allow  the executive director  to hire                                                              
staff. The  auditors did not address  whether the staff  should be                                                              
placed  in exempt  status.   The  auditors' concern  was that  the                                                              
employees  should  recognize  the   executive  director  as  their                                                              
supervisor rather  than the Council.  She then noted  the auditors                                                              
believe the Council  should consult with the Department  of Health                                                              
and Social Services  (DHSS). In 1996, the Council's  statutes were                                                              
amended to  add a plethora of  things and she  believes consulting                                                              
with  DHSS is just  one the  Council has  not gotten  to yet.  The                                                              
final  recommendation   was  that   the  Council  work   with  the                                                              
Department  of   Education  and  school  districts   to  create  a                                                              
comprehensive  standardized  curriculum  to  be  used  within  the                                                              
schools across the state. She said  that some of the larger school                                                              
districts  have adopted  curricula  and have  wonderful  programs.                                                              
Other school  districts  have not  had the time  or resources  and                                                              
need the  Council to step forward  and draw on the  resources from                                                              
the other school districts and devise at least a minimum plan.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MS.   DAVIDSON   noted  the   auditors   followed   up  on   prior                                                              
recommendations.  In terms  of data  collection,  the Council  has                                                              
improved substantially.  Timeliness of annual reports  improved in                                                              
addition to onsite monitoring.                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  ELLIS asked  Ms. Davidson  to reiterate  the downside  of                                                              
making the executive director and staff positions exempt.                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MS.  DAVIDSON  said  there  is  a   trade-off  from  a  management                                                              
perspective.  If  one is  looking  for  employees who  want  solid                                                              
employment and  are willing to go  the extra mile to  build strong                                                              
working relationships,  those employees  will feel more  secure in                                                              
the classified  system. On  the other hand,  to have  an effective                                                              
organization,  all  employees  must  work  as  a team.  If  a  new                                                              
executive director  is hired  with a  different philosophy  of the                                                              
organization, it is sometimes difficult  to "move that ship around                                                              
a little bit."                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  thanked Ms. Davidson  for the great work  she and                                                              
her staff do. He then said he would entertain a motion.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR ELLIS asked  Chairman Taylor about the  proposed amendment                                                              
in members' packets.                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  said it was submitted  to the committee  and that                                                              
he was  willing to discuss  it but he did  not intend to  raise it                                                              
personally. He  said he believes Ms.  Scudder has done a  good job                                                              
and he did not see the need for another study.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COWDERY  moved  CSHB 332(FIN)  from  committee  with  its                                                              
accompanying fiscal note and individual recommendations.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  announced that  without objection,  CSHB 332(RLS)                                                              
moved from committee. He then adjourned the meeting at 3:12 p.m.                                                                

Document Name Date/Time Subjects